For Those Who Go Beyond Boundaries

Archive for December 2010

The Double Consciousness of Black Love: The Cause and Effect Factors of Why We “Can’t Get Along”.

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I’ve been reading a very interesting book titled ‘Brainwashed, Challenging the Myth of Black Inferiority’ (by Tom Burrell). And this book brought forward some very thought-provoking topics that I felt were not only compelling revelations about the mindset of today’s African-American, but it touches on some issues that parallel to W.E.B. Dubois’ ‘Double Consciousness’.  Double Consciousness is a term coined by Dubois used to  describe what he felt was the contradictions between social values and the daily experience of African-Americans here in the U.S.

Dubois explains why he feels that ‘we’ as people have been deprived of our ‘true-self-consciousness’ by seeing ourselves through the generalized preconceived notions of individuals of other ethnicities. Meaning that we see ourselves the way many in the world see us.

I wrote a speech on this topic a while back in my public speaking class; where I cross referenced the images of African-Americans in Hip Hop/Rap videos (the images our own people project of us) and in movies, in relation to how black people are stereotyped in society. And most of you know what I’m talking about; where you see the video depictions of scantily clad black women swinging from a pole having Champagne bottles poured on their crowns; while ‘ghetto’ superstars walk in slow motion through the club. Adorned with diamond encrusted ‘Jesus Pieces’ swinging from their necks and drinking straight from the bottle.

These images of ‘us’ ‘up in the club’ are comparable to the early days of the minstrel shows, and how they were assumed to be an accurate depiction of the everyday life of a slave. And our youth imitate these ‘cake walks’ when entering social gatherings and venues.  Young black women wearing next to nothing, ‘P-popping’ on the dance floor as they drop it low for young black men who replicate the prison popular ‘sagging pants’; which if they really did their research they would understand that this signals of being spoken for by a fellow inmate/male homosexual lover.

But, let me get off that subject because I can honestly talk about that all dam day.

Referring back to the wisdom filled words of Mr. Burrell, I wanted to talk to you (the reader, the consumer, my brother and sister) about the misconception that ‘we’ as people are these sexually charged beast that’s just gotta have it. And what I mean by ‘it’ is this constant need to be sexually satisfied, or constantly seeking self- gratification through sexual conquest. Now, this can be applied to any ethnicity, but I wanted to focus more on African-Americans in relation to how we as a people view love, sex, relationships and marriage.

Burrell has a chapter in his book titled ‘Studs and Sluts’ Why Do We Conform to Black Sexual Stereotypes? And throughout this chapter he examines how African-Americans are categorized as being these hyper-sexed beings, fixated on achieving nothing more than a sexual high. He talks about how black men are seen as:

Brute (broot); a non-human creature; animal qualities, desires, etc; adj: an animal, non-human/not characterized by intelligence or reason; irrational/savage, cruel.

And how black women are seen as:

Jezebel (Jez-uh-buhl): noun: a woman who is regarded as evil and scheming; a wicked, shameless woman.

The images of black people (portrayed by black people) in the media, entertainment industry and society in general always finds ways of painting the picture of an African-American man or woman as fitting these descriptions.  And to be honest, some of our own people don’t make it any better. These stereotypes can be found within the infamous rape charges and allegations that African-American male athletes face or are found guilty of (example, Mike Tyson and Kobe Bryant), or through the secret harems exposed unto their wives  and the public during explosive sex scandals (i.e. Tiger Woods, Magic Johnson, and/or Wilt Chamberlin). African-American men have adapted to the ideology that in order to be seen as a ‘man’ or in proving his ‘man hood’ to other men he must use the functionality of his ‘man-hood’ upon countless women. He must have the ‘gift of gab’ and to ‘bag and tag’ as many dimes as possible, so that he can trade fables of conquest during a pick-up game of skins and shirts.

African-American women ARE NOT excluded from these tragic depictions. They’re not only seen as whores of Babylon, but they’re sub-consciously labeled gold-digging, lustful sluts who’ll use what they’ve got to get what they want. Many African-American women believe that the circumference of her rear-end defines her African femininity in the same manner that a slaves hind-quarters, hips and thighs where signs of being fertile and ready for breeding. African-American women have adopted this mind-set of having an ‘ass’ (and showing it) demonstrates that she’s in most cases ‘all woman’, and in doing so she’s  bought into this philosophy that being ‘freaky’ with numerous men equates to freely exploring her  sexuality. This ignorance has become such the norm amongst many African-American women to the point where this misinformed mentality is touted in the many images and lyrics you hear from modern-day female hip hop/rap artist. And any underground female artist seeking commercial stardom must do so at the expense of her pride and dignity. She has to ‘sell’ herself in a meat market of diluted prostitution to be even be seen as market worthy.

African-American females who are lucky to break into the entertainment industry either allow themselves to be exploited or they’re the ones choosing to exploit themselves via sexually explicit lyrics, sexually suggestive acts being carried out on-screen or during on stage performances; while gloating upon over exposed flesh (i.e. Lil Kim, Foxy Brown, Trina, and newly infamous Nicki Manji).  They do this as a means of increasing the shock value that fans the flames of controversy, increasing their fan-base (mainly African-American women) resulting in sky-rocketing record sales. And the African-American Community supports it! Many African-Americans believe that this is the way that black women ‘make it’. Or as one user told me ‘doing what they’ve gotta do’.  And any woman who dares confront these (‘assumed courageous) women  on this buffoonery, they’re labeled a ‘sell-out’, booji, or told they’ve forgotten they’re black.

So let me get this straight, you’re either  ‘hating’ on these women who’ve traded in the term ‘Queen’ in exchange for ‘5 Star B!tch’ based on her assets and bank roll; or you’ve somehow become so successful in life that you don’t recognize who’s staring back at you in the mirror 0_0?

This ‘Sex Factor’ mentality is one of the reasons why African-Americans experience great difficulty engaging in blissful relationships/marriage with members of the opposite sex. The things we see and hear in our movies and music is a constant reminder to us that

A.      Black men are male whores who can’t stay faithful to one woman; much less take care of his children as a father should.

B.      Black women are ‘skeezers’ using their ‘ass’ets’ to get ahead in life.

C.      Black women don’t need black men for anything more than d!ck, let’s face it, almost all the popular ‘love songs’ produced by black female artist talk about how they’ve been wronged by black men, so why bother being serious about them.

D.     Black women are nothing more than baby mama’s that crave dysfunctional drama and are emotionally, psychologically and mentally unstable.

E.      Black men are in constant ‘pimp mode’; always ‘sticken chickens’ and moving onto the next one.

Black entertainment tells us we can’t get alone with one another; thus we don’t! Most of don’t’ even try (don’t care too) because many of us have had so many difficult and failed relationships (that we’ve personally chose to engage in) with the wrong men and women, that we soon start to see one another with the same pair of misleading goggles.

Studs and Sluts Dynamics

Burrell breaks this mentality down so simple that even a cave man can do it. He incorporates these dysfunctional dynamics through three main points that explains the people who feed this miss-education of the modern-day Negro.

1.       Studs on the Hunt: Men who define themselves by their sexuality and sexual exploits.

They’re constantly on the sexual hunt with self-worth directly tied to their conquest and sexual performance. Sex is a higher priority than job advancement (higher education), fatherhood, and/or real relationships. They will risk all in the pursuit of the ‘booty’. They can’t (and will not) get too involved with their ‘jump offs’, chicken heads, ‘pigeons’, or ‘sideline h03’s’; because they’ve internalized their brutish nature by spouting this ‘I’m doing this to you, not with you’ mantra. They animalize, dehumanize, and objectify women to reinforce the idea that women (mainly African-American women) are unworthy of emotional commitment and long-term involvement.

We see this as being evident with the manner in which women are portrayed in African-American movies and music. The infamous strippers making in clap, the ‘dime pieces’ shaking it fast and the controversial credit card swipe down the ass crack in the video ‘Tip Drill’ all show black women as nothing more than mere stress relievers. Eye candy for visual appeasement and sexual gratification. Our African-American men see the women in these videos and lyrics being devalued and objectified on-screen, and they incorporate the same ignorant mentality into how they treat the common woman.

But what’s so amazing about this retardation is that some African-American men will devalue a black woman while uplifting the value of women who belong to other ethnicities. They see women with skin not like theirs as being more ‘wife’ worthy, based on the assumption that these women know more about what it takes to be a wife (domesticated, docile, and more feminine); and they believe that these women somehow make ‘better’ wives/mothers than that of the African-American women who raised them.

2.       Gold-Digging Slut: Jezebel-like sex objects who believe that to get anywhere in life, they have to be really good at ‘it’. Sex and sexual exploitation is their ticket, or money-maker.

Gold-diggers do one of two things

A.      They have intercourse in the hopes of becoming impregnated by a man with money and social status

B.      Allow themselves to become the conquest of the brutes in return for monetary and material gain (i.e. expensive dinners, jewelry, getting their bills /rent paid or starring role in a video). These ‘women’ are conditioned to devalue sex. Their innate emotions and needs for tenderness, compassion, and love are continually repressed. They personally believe they’re unworthy of love and respect, and avoid disappointment at all cost.

I think that these women have experienced failed relationship after failed relationship; and they’ve become hardened to the idea of being in love or loved by someone. Thus, they too identify and incorporate the lyrics of such songs as ‘Ding-a-lang’ rapped by Trina ft. Nicki into their life’s philosophies on love. And in doing so assume that they’ve already gained possession of the finer things in life, thus all they need a man for is what’s in his bank account or good sex.

These women are the female versions of brutes, while adapting to a misogynistic views of love and sex (i.e. devaluing the loving touch and companionship of a man). This leads many black men to assume that ALL black women incorporate these individual characteristics into their  personality traits, thus (to them) making black women less desirable as wives/mothers of their children, or see them as ‘acting manly’. Because its assume that only a men can separate love from sex,  if a woman demonstrates she can do the same (using men in the same manner that some men use women) she’s acting, and thinking like a man in respects to love.

3.       Gotta do whatcha gotta do: Sex as a means of substance and immediate gratification. Sex without emotion.  Defensive self-devaluation justifies their sensation-driven life. Propaganda validates their actions (i.e. what they see in the videos and what they hear in the music). Sexual behavior is (in their minds) a legitimate means to ‘making it’. They disassociate themselves from their bodies and the possibility of a finding authentic love.

This can be applied to both African-American women and men. There are just as many African-American men who ‘slang’ the ‘D’ as a means of paying rent, getting clothes, gifts and having a place to lay their heads.

African-American men and women share a mutual level of disrespect towards one another. They demonstrate continual disrespect, contempt, mistrust and ridicule towards each other; yet find ways to blame these dysfunctional attitudes towards everyone else. I read in this book that 43.3 percent of black men and 41.9 percent of black women in American have never been wed.  And this is not to say that being married is the know all end all to the problems that plague black people, but it speaks volumes of how African-Americans find it difficult to get along with one another.

Now, we can debate the many theories and reasons why we’re experiencing such issues within our communities. We can even go so far as to assume that in being with a mate of another ethnicity that we’ve somehow ‘upgraded’ in the model of lovers we’ve chose. But to me personally one of the REAL reasons why we’re not marrying or being serious about marriage to one another is the FACT that we spend more time finding fault with one another than we do within ourselves. We sub-consciously engage in this ‘battle of the sexes’ finding any and every reason we can point fingers and lay blame on the opposing parties.

When will WE realize that our choice in mate determines the type and level of love we’ll share?


Why is Michael Vick Still on Trial?

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Some coworkers of mine and I where engaged in a llllooonnnnngggggg drawn out conversation the other day about Mr. Vick. I think we started talking about him when we saw a FAUX News flash talking about his desires of someday becoming a dog owner again. Now, I personally don’t have a problem with the man owning a dog again; I feel that if he’s learned his lesson about his mis-doings in the past its time to move on. He served 2+ years in Prison, and has completed countless volunteer man hours with the local ASPCA so honestly, there’s nothing else (IMHO) that he can learn about the mistakes he made. But what struck me as interesting (yet not surprising) was that one of the guys suggested that he ‘take his time’ 0_o? He suggested that he start out owning cats first and then work his way up to dogs, as if theres some sort of animal structure of worth linked to their species. Another guy then played of that Bvsh!t comment and suggested that he be forced to wait to a specific age before he become LEGALLY eligible to be classied as a pet owner. And that he must endure a trial period of two years (similar to probation) where he’s forced to fill out a series of paperwork, producing documentation of vet visits, show his work hours and how much times he’s spends with ONE DOG! He even took it so far as to suggest that the an have frequent visits with such famous animal care givers as Cesare Milan the Dog  Whisperer Victoria Stilwell the animal behaviorist.

Whiskey, Tango, FoxTrot People! Who are WE (the many of us who don’t have a life) to tell this man that his ‘dog-ownership’ card should be permanently revoked or placed on multi-year restriction? Don’t get it twisted, I consider myself an animal rights advocate, and a dog lover. I grew up with dogs, cats, birds, turtles, fish, lizards, you name it. And each animal in my house hold was treated with love and care; BUT, I refuse too allow myself to be come consumed with sensationalized messiness much less entertained with the daily doings of Michael Vick.

I’ve seen the specials on Animal Planet, ran over and over and over again; show casing animal rescue shelters and foster car takers of ALL the dogs confiscated from Vicks property over two years ago. I’ve seen the women breaking down into tears when talking about how these dogs where treated, I even shed a tear or two for them my self (I have a heart). But I didn’t allow the images of the canine gladiators being extracted from their lanistas compound to cloud my better judgement.  I watched the interview they spoke of; and all he said was that ONE DAY, he’d like to be a reformed dog owner. Key word being ONE DAY! Not tomorrow, not next weekend, or twice on Sundays, just a plain and simple one day. He’s talked about how his works with the Humain  society has opened his eye’s to the wrongs of his actions past. And I understand this, because in my community (the black community) many of us don’t have a chance to fully see, much less understand the effects of such criminal activity on these innocent beings. Does this serve as a justifiable excuses for his actions? No! Because he and those in his company knew the consequences of these actions, and they knew what they where doing was not only wrong but illegal. But I can’t allow my love of animals to put me at odds with my common sense. Meaning I understood that the activities he par-took in  was both wrong and jail-time worthy,  but I didn’t dwell on it like some of these people are doing.

The same time and energy some people put into protesting his owning a dog again, can be put towards ending the human sex slave trade world wide.

The same time and energy some people put into protesting his owning a dog again, can be put towards ending ethnic cleansing and genocide in war torn parts of Africa and Asia

The same time and energy some people put into protesting his owning a dog again, can be put towards ending world hunger/famine

The same time and energy some people put into protesting his owning a dog again, can be put towards ending drug and gang violence here in the U.S.

The same time and energy some people put into protesting his owning a dog again, can be put towards finding solutions for green energy

The same time and energy some people put into protesting the fvck ups of those who serve in the house and senate (the real criminals), putting pressure on them to work together to find solutions to the problems this country currently face.

I’m sure I’ve made my point here. The point that constantly putting this man in the spot light, regurgitating the same non-sense over his past animal offenses it not only border line ‘obsessive but to me personally is psychotic. And for me, it demonstrates that these people have deeper issues with Vick (ahem) than the fact that he was fighting dogs. DOGS! Not pitting man against man in a fight to the death for his life, but DOGS!

He’s served his time for being found guilty, so I don’t understand why this man is still making head line news over dogs again? I don’t understand why these people want to continently see him being placed in a social supreme-court justice style ‘witch-hunt’ of personal opinions that demising his character based on the fact that he served time (2+ years) for orchestrating a dog fighting ring.

When will these people feel that he’s not only learned his lesson, but he’s paid his dues back to society and its time to let it go?

Written by DeityNyota

December 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm

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The Old ‘Ball and Chain”: Why a lot of Men find it difficult to Commit.

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Before I even get started, I wanna make two things clear.

A. I’m not married. I’m currently dating but I have yet to settle down. Thus, I want everyone who reads this blog to understand that this is based on my personal opinions, in relation to things I’ve seen (and lived through) in my life time. These experiences and mistakes have assisted me in trying to formulate my hypothesis on what I think is one of the reasons why men are unable to commit or why we as women have problems finding men who’re willing to commit. Its not a scientific fact that can be backed with what every one else may assume to be ‘proof’; so any responses to this posting have no more bearing of ‘truth’ than my posting over all.

B. I want to give a new found friend of mine; Ms. Lydia Cotton on facebook credit for her contributions to this blog. She and I go at it at times based on our differences of opinions on specific topics, but I have to say these last two blogs she’s posted has opened the flood gates for some very frank and much needed discussion amongst some outspoken African Americans. That’s one of the reasons why I lover her page, because you meet so many different people with a variant of views on some of the same discussions we as a people have ‘regurgitated’ within our community, time and time again (and have done nothing to solve these said issues). So its a breath of fresh air to just say what’s on your mind while talking to like-minded people. But I digress from my ‘soap box’ ;)….sort of.

I’m not your wife…yet

One of the hot button issues she brought forward for discussion this past weekend touched on how many men (I’m addressing my brotha’s specifically) assume that its cool for a woman to perform what most of us would call ‘wifely duties’ with out being wed (or having any intentions of being married) to  the women they’re with. And I was intrigued, enlightened, and even delighted by some of the responses posted on this topic. Ms. Cotton wanted to know why our ‘brothers’ have yet to learn the difference between a girlfriend and a wife. And while demonstrating this dysfunction, they’re expecting their live-in girlfriends and ‘career finances’  to cook, clean, wash their drawers,while willing conducting around the clock ‘booty duty’.  She state that its insane to assume they’re entitled to such special treatment and that its not their women’s job per say to continue such actions unless he’s willing to do what Beyonce says and ‘put a ring on it’ i.e. UPGRADE HER!

In which, I have to agree, for the simple fact that if a man has been with a woman more than 3+ years, I  honestly feel there’s no longer a need to try and figure out if she’s ‘the one’ for you. Technically after three years of living together you should  have already figured that out by now. Going home/waking up to the same person for three years+ to me is (IMHO) quite some time to spend with a woman or man day in/day out. And by this time you should know if this woman or man is the soul mate you’ve been seeking. Unless you know within your heart of hearts that you’re just settling for anyone just to be able to say you have someone (or something to do). In which, that’s fowl and any man or woman who does so either lacks the esteem to need to see themselves as worthy of being engaged in a relationship or marriage to someone who loves them for who they are; or they’re just plain selfish, and don’t deserve the effort their parter is putting into making things work.

A friend of mine once told me that one of his ‘boys’ was giving explicit details of the intimate relationship he currently shares with his live-in girlfriend. Stating that her sex was phenomenal, she could cook, clean and does all the things he’s looking for in a woman; yet he doesn’t see himself being married to her. When my friend asked why if she was everything he wanted in a wife? and his reply was that she’s not a ‘dime’ (meaning she’s not a 10 on a scale of 10). Her looks are mediocre at best and not what he could envision himself being seen with in the near future. Thus, he was waiting for something ‘better’ to come along. And I’ve known of men doing this; holding onto the pageant runner up, until he can have his shot at Mrs. America. And ladies, this is some of the reasons why some men will live with you as if he was your husband, and not be serious about putting  a ring on your finger. I hate to say it, but its possible that he honestly doesn’t see you as his future wife/mother of his children.

The Three Year Plan

A sure sign that this may be the case is when you bring up the subject of engagement/marriage, the same excuses he used the first time you talked about it are the same excuses he’s using 3 to 6 years from that date. If he keeps saying he wants to save money for a ring and home purchase (which is fine, I understand the need to provide) ask him to show YOU what steps he’s taking to save money or what budget he’s maintaining to achieve that financial goal that he’s set for himself. Ask him what are his goals for the two of you and what he’s doing to ensure he reaches those goals within a specific set time. I understand that things don’t always go as planned (he may get laid off/fired, he may become ill or seriously injured, even crippled) but he has to show you that he’s on the grind doing what it takes to ensure the two of you live comfortably. This is if  financial stability his ‘true’ motives for not being married. But the two of you should make this agreement clear prior to even taking the relationship from friendship to marriage. Ask that he up date you on the progression he’s making (i.e. allow you to see statements, or have access to his budget). If you’re going to be his future wife, you should be able to see these things anyway (because he trust you right?). He can’t keep telling you that he wants to save money for your marriage; yet keeps making big purchases, spending money going out to eat, buying clothes and going drinking with his buddies. If he can spend hundreds of dollars on pay per view sports events and ball game tickets, and purchase the latest high tech gadgets then he can also be disciplined enough to put that money towards securing a ring, or the down payment on a home.

DO KEEP IN MIND! I’m not advising that you constantly hassle the man about his money (that can drive him to leave you over all), but I do advise that every now and again you both share that open line of communications about your future plans. Find time that both you and your potential spouse can sit down and discuss what it is that you both desire from one another currently and in the future. And IF HE’S SERIOUS about having you in his life, he won’t have a problem having this discussion. But, this is just my honest opinion.

Stop Fighting

Some men will constantly make it a point to find something wrong with you! As if everything you do is some how contributing to his delinquency in making your union official (I’ve seen this time and time again). When ever you try and talk to him about what’s the status of your relationship; he’ll start an argument to keep from talking about the subject of marriage. This is a defense mechanism that some men incorporate into avoiding the topic over all. When ever you two always fight about marriage (every time you bring it up) its because he’s not planing to get married, plain and simple. Even if he keeps making up the same excuses are get uneasy and upset when you even talk about it, let him go. Let him gone and find what it is he’s looking for because he’s honestly not looking for it from you. You found him, you’ll find someone else. But IF YOU DO LEAVE, do not let this dude sweet talk his way back into your pants. Do not jump at his becking call and do not allow yourself to be sucked into believing that he’s ‘trying’; because there’s a big difference in ‘trying’ and actually ‘doing’. Meaning he’s either trying by demonstrating what steps he’s taking to make this ‘dream’ a reality, or he’s ‘trying’ to stall for time to keep from being married.

He loves me, He loves me not

I personally can’t stand (and won’t stand for) being with someone who I’m wondering if he loves me or not. I feel that’s a waste of both my time and his. And the advice of comedian Steve Harvey (may you agree with his advice or not) stated in an interview demonstrates teachings that most men should either have at a young age, or give to young men within their communities. He stated that he personally tells his sons that there comes a time in a mans life when he must know what it is he desires for himself in life, love and relationships/marriage. Again, I agree with this, because far to often we see both men and women hopping back and forward between various lovers or the same lover, unable to commit, unable to stay faithful and unable to decide who’s best for them. I’ve personally witnessed men string along women who’re head over heals in love with them, by making empty promises followed by lame excuses as a means of feeding her a ‘hope sandwich’. She gets lost within herself (doing everything to ‘get right’) by eating spoon fulls of the ‘mess’ he feeds her. She’s been duped into believing that some day he’ll realize the diamond he’s found in her amongst Rhinestones he ‘knocks dow’ and finally hop the broom. But what she doesn’t realize is that he’s only telling her what he knows she wants to hear, and giving her just enough to keep her coming back to him (He don’t want her, but he don’t want anyone else to have her). You should not be in a relationship with a man who makes you wonder if he loves you or not. Actions (in my opinion) speak louder than words. If he can show you he loves by communicating with you, trusting you, respecting your union by not cheating, or flirting with other women, or even spending quality time with you and talking about his plans, then you have a winner. But if he demonstrates the inability to do either of these things, he’s no more worried about being committed to you than he’s worried about the price of tea in China.

Men believe that they have a variant of options when it comes to potential mates (in which to be honest we all do). There are several billions of single individuals in this world who’re seeking permanent love and affect. But something I’ve learned about most men is that men are not afraid to step outside the ethnic boundaries and marry, or have sex with women who don’t look like them. Thus, they’ve unknowingly in most cases incorporated the ‘many fish in the sea’ philosophy to their dating and mating habits. And this is one of the contributing factors to why men feel no pressure to commit to one woman. They believe that because its in a man’s nature to procreate, they can and should really roam and sow their ‘royal oats’. For them there is not biological clock ticking (it isn’t for me either) as much as women assume it is for them. So there’s no need, no rush and no pressure to be with you and you only. Thus, I feel that women should start incorporating the same ‘fishy’ philosophy in their dating lives. Stop getting hung up on a man who’s married already (if he cheats on his wife he’ll cheat on you, and he’s not leaving his wife and kids for you), leave the thugs alone (they already have ‘bags’ that are too heavy for you to carry) and stop assuming that the only ‘good man’ is a ‘godly’ man. There are men who don’t practice the same faith (or maybe even none at all) but make suitable mates. A man will travel over seas or even purchase a mail order bride for both connivence and love. Where as women are stuck in staying traditionally specific to their ethnicity and nationality; in which I think we as women should be open to dating and marrying ‘something new’. Hell, I’m about to go and pick up me a Geriod Butler  or Hugh Jackmen as ssssooonnnnn as I get my school money LOL.

But these are just my thoughts, not fact nor fiction, thus what I think about the subject………

Written by DeityNyota

December 13, 2010 at 5:38 pm

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